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View Poll Results: Do you want Obama's healthcare program to be passed
Yes! 66 40.74%
Fuck No! 52 32.10%
LF 11 6.79%
Congress is full of idiots 33 20.37%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-08-2009, 11:29 AM   #11
Feibelman
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

Universal Health care would not work in America. Saying that ''Australia and Canada have it so why can't we?'' is a horrible analogy. Neither of these countries are supporting 20+ million illegal immigrants, plus another 30 who don't have Health care now. So, in short, the Government is going to dump 50 million people into the health care system. How are they going to do this? Well, if an 70 year old woman needs eye surgery, the Government can say, ''you're not getting eye surgery, you're getting these pills, because it's cheaper for us.'' The Government will in essence provide the cheapest and poorest quality care because it has to cover 50 million people for free. Almost every single program the Government has ever tried to run has failed. Except the highway system. But that's it. The Government needs to stay out of the lives of it's citizens, biut thats a rant for another day. Thank god this will never pass.

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Old 08-08-2009, 11:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

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Originally Posted by Feibelman View Post
Universal Health care would not work in America. Saying that ''Australia and Canada have it so why can't we?'' is a horrible analogy. Neither of these countries are supporting 20+ million illegal immigrants, plus another 30 who don't have Health care now. So, in short, the Government is going to dump 50 million people into the health care system. How are they going to do this? Well, if an 70 year old woman needs eye surgery, the Government can say, ''you're not getting eye surgery, you're getting these pills, because it's cheaper for us.'' The Government will in essence provide the cheapest and poorest quality care because it has to cover 50 million people for free. Almost every single program the Government has ever tried to run has failed. Except the highway system. But that's it. The Government needs to stay out of the lives of it's citizens, biut thats a rant for another day. Thank god this will never pass.
well said =)
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feibelman View Post
Universal Health care would not work in America. Saying that ''Australia and Canada have it so why can't we?'' is a horrible analogy. Neither of these countries are supporting 20+ million illegal immigrants, plus another 30 who don't have Health care now. So, in short, the Government is going to dump 50 million people into the health care system. How are they going to do this? Well, if an 70 year old woman needs eye surgery, the Government can say, ''you're not getting eye surgery, you're getting these pills, because it's cheaper for us.'' The Government will in essence provide the cheapest and poorest quality care because it has to cover 50 million people for free. Almost every single program the Government has ever tried to run has failed. Except the highway system. But that's it. The Government needs to stay out of the lives of it's citizens, biut thats a rant for another day. Thank god this will never pass.
not really Feibs. Ever lived in a boarder state? the Government is already paying for their healthcare! they have been for a very long time. in fact, the illegals have better access to healthcare then most citizens so your arguement just doesn't fly.
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

But the part about the gov choosing definelty does. Who gets to choose whether she gets the surgery or not based on age or money....
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Old 08-08-2009, 11:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

American citizens would be at the end of a long, long line. Jose and Sancho from Guatemala would be the first two in line.

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Old 08-08-2009, 01:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

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But the part about the gov choosing definelty does. Who gets to choose whether she gets the surgery or not based on age or money....
the same bean counters who choose now Hockey. you think doctors have any control in today's system? Ask a doctor, the insurance companies decide. If anything this system will help because politicians care about getting re-elected (more than they care about doing a good job) an they'll make the rules to give doctors more control. If they don't people will flip and the losers wont get re-elected.

And Feibs, we're already at the back of the line, most citizens just don't realize it. At least this way we'll at least get equal access.
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:24 PM   #17
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And Feibs, we're already at the back of the line, most citizens just don't realize it. At least this way we'll at least get equal access.

Equal access?? It shouldn't be equal access. This is America. American citizens should come first. You should choose your insurance, pay your premium, and if god forbid something happens, you'll be covered for whatever procedure is best (despite the cost). Illegal immigrants shouldn't have any free coverage at all. Poor AMERICAN citizens have Medicaid.

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Old 08-08-2009, 01:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feibelman View Post
Universal Health care would not work in America. Saying that ''Australia and Canada have it so why can't we?'' is a horrible analogy. Neither of these countries are supporting 20+ million illegal immigrants, plus another 30 who don't have Health care now. So, in short, the Government is going to dump 50 million people into the health care system. How are they going to do this? Well, if an 70 year old woman needs eye surgery, the Government can say, ''you're not getting eye surgery, you're getting these pills, because it's cheaper for us.'' The Government will in essence provide the cheapest and poorest quality care because it has to cover 50 million people for free. Almost every single program the Government has ever tried to run has failed. Except the highway system. But that's it. The Government needs to stay out of the lives of it's citizens, biut thats a rant for another day. Thank god this will never pass.
Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act requires any hospital to provide emergency services to any person regardless of their ability to pay or status in the country. When citizens or illegals cannot pay the bill, municipalities and states eat the cost of services. We already pay for "universal" emergency coverage and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. <- This can also be linked to hospital overloads and overuse of emergency services. People who can't afford a doctor's visit use the emergency room instead because they cannot be turned away and we (as taxpayers) provide them services. If we are going to pay for them anyways, I'd at least rather see a smarter use of money to lower costs over time.
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

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Originally Posted by Feibelman View Post
Equal access?? It shouldn't be equal access. This is America. American citizens should come first. You should choose your insurance, pay your premium, and if god forbid something happens, you'll be covered for whatever procedure is best (despite the cost). Illegal immigrants shouldn't have any free coverage at all. Poor AMERICAN citizens have Medicaid.
ah, would be nice to live in that world, but we dont.

Right now the system is fucked. Those 2 guys from Guatemala you mentioned have better health care than 98% of Americans right now.
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Old 08-08-2009, 03:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare

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No id rather not put us in more debt, i have health care through work so if they don't have it they can buy it, should be grateful children get it for free.
Ehh hate to burst your bubble but the debt is already on the fast track thanks to medicare and itíll be a whopper a close to 50 trillion dollar whopper in fact. And private health insurance tends to be on the expensive side and no itís not always easy to get as I said a few years back no insurance company would touch my uncle. And employer based healthcare (which I also have with dental and vision too) is a really bad idea in a global economy when your competition doesnít also have to provide it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feibelman View Post
Universal Health care would not work in America. Saying that ''Australia and Canada have it so why can't we?'' is a horrible analogy. Neither of these countries are supporting 20+ million illegal immigrants, plus another 30 who don't have Health care now. So, in short, the Government is going to dump 50 million people into the health care system. How are they going to do this? Well, if an 70 year old woman needs eye surgery, the Government can say, ''you're not getting eye surgery, you're getting these pills, because it's cheaper for us.'' The Government will in essence provide the cheapest and poorest quality care because it has to cover 50 million people for free. Almost every single program the Government has ever tried to run has failed. Except the highway system. But that's it. The Government needs to stay out of the lives of it's citizens, biut thats a rant for another day. Thank god this will never pass.
And private insurance is the pinnacle of success. You donít think insurance companies regularly deny approval for certain treatments because of the cost? And the government still foots the bill for those uninsured because as Imperial said all they have to do is go to the hospital which are required to provide treatment and hereís the kicker because most people donít go when they first notice a problem or they donít get regular checkups which can catch a problem early the bill is often in the tens of thousands of dollars for problems that if theyíd been treated early would have cost a fraction of that. Not to mention all those bankruptcies stemming from medical expenses. I think itís funny though that you think that the highway system is success go see the autobahn and youíll weep.
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But the part about the gov choosing definelty does. Who gets to choose whether she gets the surgery or not based on age or money....
Ehh which is better a health insurance bean counter whose looking to turn a profit or an overworked bureaucrat looking to break even no matter how you set it up for the average person there is always going to be someone looking at the bottom line sadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feibelman View Post
Equal access?? It shouldn't be equal access. This is America. American citizens should come first. You should choose your insurance, pay your premium, and if god forbid something happens, you'll be covered for whatever procedure is best (despite the cost). Illegal immigrants shouldn't have any free coverage at all. Poor AMERICAN citizens have Medicaid.
I agree it would be great if things worked like that. Sadly they donít not only does your idea not take into account ballooning costs which if they arenít reigned in will cripple this country within the next half century but also the fact that insurance companies are businesses and any econ major will tell you the sole purpose of any business is to turn a profit sadly that tends to come at the expense of the patient in this case.
Again I have to say probably the most viable solution would be for the government to provide baseline care ďwhich again as Imperial already stated is the de facto situation alreadyĒ only by making it official youíll get more preventive care which should at least be a net wash as far as costs go but youíll now be able to probably fund it rather than just have it as another sort of debt. Beyond that baseline coverage have the market provide supplemental coverage on a per-individual or per-family basis which should increase competition and keep costs down. And also medicare doesnít cover all poor Americans just those below the proverty lines so if your lower middle class or just treading slightly above the poverty line youíre sorry out of luck not to mention the program is a beyond massive black hole for money that is simply not sustainable in the long run as is.

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